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    #1

    SelectItem labels are not true HTML <label>s...

    I've noticed that SelectItem and SelectOtherItem controls are rendered without <label> controls for their titles. Is this a bug, or is there a reason for doing this? I have been trying to increase the font size for all of the labels on my form and it makes it harder to do when not all of the titles are rendered the same way. I've been told not to use SelectItem controls because "it is not 508 compliant without a matching label".

    Is there a way to force these controls to be rendered with real <label>s, or are there alternative controls I can use that have the same functionality (I know I can use ComboBoxItems for the basic dropdown functionality, but what about the "Other.." functionality)?


    - SmartGWT 2.5.1 (by the way, I couldn't get the developer console to launch)
    - Firefox 23 (the latest on Windows)
    Tags: None
    #2
    We do write <label> tags, and even if we didn't, it wouldn't be an accessibility issue because we also use aria-labelledby, which is needed if the label will not be visible.

    Whoever commented on the accessibility of SelectItem - probably you should not give much weight to further comments on accessibility from this person.

    You are also multiple releases out of date and should plan an upgrade as soon as possible.

    Comment

      #3
      SelectItem labels are not true HTML &lt;label&gt;s...

      Thanks for the quick response!

      Sorry, I'm using version 4.0 of SmartGWT -- I incorrectly put the version of GWT we're using. I still have not been able to launch the developer console - is this feature still working?

      We do write <label> tags
      No, incorrect. For SelectItem controls you do not produce <label> tags. Please refer to the showcase for proof.

      http://www.smartclient.com/smartgwt/...bobox_category

      Using Firebug, I can see the generated code for the SelectItem control does not contain any <label> tags (please see below). Will this be fixed in future versions?

      Code:
      <tr>
<td $89="isc_SelectItem_15" $9a="$9g" id="isc_CJ" class="formTitle" align="right" valign="middle">Select :</td>
<td align="left" class="formCell" style="" id="isc_CK" $89="isc_SelectItem_15">
<table role="presentation" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" id="isc_CL" style="margin: 0px; border: 0px; padding: 0px; background-image: none; background-color: transparent; -webkit-box-shadow: none; box-shadow: none; white-space: normal; width: 146px;" class="formCell">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="margin: 0px; border: 0px; padding: 0px; background-image: none; background-color: transparent; -webkit-box-shadow: none; box-shadow: none;" valign="middle">
<table role="presentation" id="isc_CM" $89="isc_SelectItem_15" $9a="$9f" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="cursor: default; width: 146px;" class="selectItemControl">
</td>
<td id="isc_CR" class="formHint">
<nobr>A SelectItem with icons</nobr>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</td>
</tr>

      Whoever commented on the accessibility of SelectItem - probably you should not give much weight to further comments on accessibility from this person.
      Sorry, but that's incorrect. Please refer to the following information about Section 508 compliance. I think it's important for you to understand it.

      - https://www.section508.gov/index.cfm...ction=goodPrac
      - http://section508.gov/index.cfm?fuseAction=stdsdoc#Web
      - http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-HTML-TECHS/#forms-labels

      Finally, that person who I quoted is my customer. I don't know about you, but I can't ignore my customer and expect to stay in business long.

      So, back to my original question - I'll just copy it here:

      Is there a way to force SelectItem controls to be rendered with real <label>s, or are there alternative controls I can use that have the same functionality (I know I can use ComboBoxItems for the basic dropdown functionality, but what about the "Other.." functionality)?

      Comment

        #4
        No, incorrect. For SelectItem controls you do not produce <label> tags. Please refer to the showcase for proof.

        http://www.smartclient.com/smartgwt/...bobox_category
        Afraid you are incorrect. The label tag is there, around the word "Select", which is exactly where it should be.

        We're quite familiar with the resources you point out, however, you are pointing to standard for normal content, not applications.

        Please take some time reading about ARIA, the relevant standard for web applications, before attempting to report any further accessibility bugs. You should also read the Accessibility overview in the docs.

        Comment

          #5
          SelectItem labels are not true HTML &lt;label&gt;s...

          Originally posted by Isomorphic View Post
          Afraid you are incorrect. The label tag is there, around the word "Select", which is exactly where it should be.
          Can you please provide code proof of this? I don't see it.

          We're quite familiar with the resources you point out, however, you are pointing to standard for normal content, not applications.
          Did you read the links I sent? The title of the section I sent is "1194.22 Web-based intranet and internet information and applications. 16 rules." This is for web applications.

          Please take some time reading about ARIA, the relevant standard for web applications, before attempting to report any further accessibility bugs. You should also read the Accessibility overview in the docs.
          I'm in the process of reading up on ARIA -- it's really cool technology and it's great that you are using it with SmartGWT -- I need to find out if this will suffice for my customer (so far the answer is "no" - hence the reason I posted my question here...).

          Comment

            #6
            Can you please provide code proof of this? I don't see it.
            ???

            It's right there in the very sample you linked to. Firebug can search by tag name, so it looks like you did not make even the slightest attempt to find the tag, just bounced the question back to us??

            We're quite familiar with the resources you point out, however, you are pointing to standard for normal content, not applications.
            Did you read the links I sent? The title of the section I sent is "1194.22 Web-based intranet and internet information and applications. 16 rules." This is for web applications.
            These rules date from the very earliest 508 guidelines, long since superseded by more relevant standards. Nevertheless, we don't break any of the guidelines shown here.

            Please, if this is the first time you have even heard of ARIA, recognize that you have a lot to learn about accessibility. We won't be responding any more on this topic, but we're more than happy to address actual accessibility issues if they are real and well-reported.

            Comment

              #7
              Originally posted by Isomorphic View Post
              ???

              It's right there in the very sample you linked to. Firebug can search by tag name, so it looks like you did not make even the slightest attempt to find the tag, just bounced the question back to us??
              Please make sure you're not finding the <label> tag that was generated for the ComboBoxItem in the example (it's above the SelectItem). I provided the relevant code for the SelectItem because it's not being generated for the SelectItem control.

              You are correctly producing <label> tags for the ComboBoxItem controls, so it's baffling why you wouldn't produce them for the SelectItem controls as well.

              I did make the slightest attempt to find a <label> tag, can you please make a slight attempt to answer my question without being so condescending?


              These rules date from the very earliest 508 guidelines, long since superseded by more relevant standards. Nevertheless, we don't break any of the guidelines shown here.
              Unfortunately there are a lot of places that still use Section 508 as their baseline, so it's something you should consider. Obviously you feel it's important or you wouldn't mention Section 508 so boldly on your product page.
              http://www.smartclient.com/product/smartgwt.jsp

              Please, if this is the first time you have even heard of ARIA, recognize that you have a lot to learn about accessibility. We won't be responding any more on this topic, but we're more than happy to address actual accessibility issues if they are real and well-reported.
              I believe my accessibility issue is real and well-reported. Would anyone else here disagree? I understand as a small company you guys are very busy, but you have to take customer issues seriously.

              I would say "thanks" for your help, but I don't feel I have had any useful help from you today...

              Comment

                #8
                Please make sure you're not finding the <label> tag that was generated for the ComboBoxItem in the example (it's above the SelectItem). I provided the relevant code for the SelectItem because it's not being generated for the SelectItem control.
                OK, sorry, it is missing here due to the recent addition of features to support form item title clipping, and although it's technically redundant (due to ARIA-label attributes added in screenReader mode), we do need to re-add it, not because it affects accessibility, but because naive accessibility scanners will flag it as an error (for the same reason, we have to add useless empty alt="" tags to all <img>s, even though this has no effect on accessibility).

                Unfortunately there are a lot of places that still use Section 508 as their baseline, so it's something you should consider. Obviously you feel it's important or you wouldn't mention Section 508 so boldly on your product page.
                http://www.smartclient.com/product/smartgwt.jsp
                Section 508 is still the best-recognized name for government accessibility requirements. In practice, Section 508 does not have anywhere near enough detail to serve as a means of evaluating accessibility of a web application - the actual, in-practice standard for evaluating accessibility of a web application is ARIA, and this why you can't evaluate a web applications' compliance with Section 508 without understanding ARIA.

                I understand as a small company you guys are very busy, but you have to take customer issues seriously.
                The fact that we want to get to real, customer-reported issues is exactly why we were asking you to become familiar with the relevant standards before trying to report issues.

                But, as it turned out, you did find a bug (sort of), so, sorry for the misunderstanding.

                Comment

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Isomorphic View Post
                  But, as it turned out, you did find a bug (sort of), so, sorry for the misunderstanding.
                  Is there a process for submitting bugs? Please let me know if there's any additional information you need from me.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Just posting all the information here is the preferred process for submitting bugs.

                    We don't need anything further on this one. It'll most likely be fixed early next week.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      So a correction: there is no bug, regression or accessibility issue.

                      There is no <label> element because there is no <input> element, and that's the only situation where you use <label> (per HTML spec).

                      Our SelectItem is not built out of a native HTML <input> and cannot be, because it has capabilities no HTML <input> has. This is a common situation, and it's the reason ARIA defines the aria-role attribute.

                      The (existing) behavior of adding an aria-label attribute makes the control accessible under the only applicable standard.

                      See the Accessibility overview for more information about ARIA and how to enable accessibility support.

                      Comment

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