WindowBuilder + SmartGWT 3.0?

[joe.parks@hyperproductive.com]

I'm trying to use the latest version of WindowBuilder (2011.10.18) with the latest version of SmartGWT (3.0).
Opening a view class in the designer, though, I'm presented with the error message:
"WindowBuilder supports only SmartGWT versions 2.4, 2.5. But 3.0 found."

Is there a way to work around this? Do you know if there is a patch for WindowBuilder underway?

[Isomorphic]

We currently don't recommend using WindowBuilder / GWT Designer with SmartGWT, since it encourages you to hand-create and hand-place controls that SmartGWT's data binding system generates and places automatically, which leads to extra effort and unnecessary code. More background here.

[joe.parks@hyperproductive.com]

I appreciate the recommendation, but does that mean that there is no planned fix or workaround?

[Isomorphic]

A workaround enabling you to do something in a worse and slower way? No, before we would recommend such a tool over the more productive approaches covered in the QuickStart Guide, we would need to augment it a lot (eg make databinding part of the tool itself, as it is in Visual Builder).

[joe.parks@hyperproductive.com]

I'm sure I sound obtuse, but this worked before updating to v3.0.
Maybe the fix is more on the windowbuilder side, though.

[Isomorphic]

Yes, the fix is on the WindowBuilder side. We didn't write the code, and it seems to rely on various internals. For the reasons we explained before, it's not currently something we're excited to go fix, as we feel we have more effective tools already. However, WindowBuilder is now open source and so is SmartGWT, so you can actually add support if you feel you really need it.

[skitchin]

Here's the fix for com.google.gdt.eclipse.designer.SmartGWT_2.4.2.r37x201110181249.jar

-----

Index: src / com / google / gdt / eclipse / designer / smart / parser / ClassLoaderValidator.java
================================================== =================
--- Src / com / google / gdt / eclipse / designer / smart / parser / ClassLoaderValidator.java (revision 22)
+ + + Src / com / google / gdt / eclipse / designer / smart / parser / ClassLoaderValidator.java (working copy)
@ @ -35,8 +35,8 @ @
* @ Coverage SmartGWT
* /
public final class ClassLoaderValidator implements IClassLoaderValidator {
- Private static final String [] VALID_VERSIONS = {"2.4", "2.5"};
- Private static final String VALID_VERSIONS_STRING = "2.4, 2.5";
+ Private static final String [] VALID_VERSIONS = {"2.4", "2.5", "3.0"};
+ Private static final String VALID_VERSIONS_STRING = "2.4, 2.5, 3.0";

[skitchin]

Yes, the fix is on the WindowBuilder side. We didn't write the code, and it seems to rely on various internals. For the reasons we explained before, it's not currently something we're excited to go fix, as we feel we have more effective tools already. However, WindowBuilder is now open source and so is SmartGWT, so you can actually add support if you feel you really need it.

I have to disagree. To be honest, I'm not too impressed with Isomorphic's Visual Builder since its not a true IDE application since it's more designed for someone who has little programming experience. It lacked several important features such as debugging, code watch, CVS, Maven, Ant, and other useful plugins. Personally, I think Isomorphic should abandon Visual Builder and focus on building a plugin for Eclipse's WindowBuilder or NetBeans since majority of Java programmers use those two IDEs.

It's not Google's responsibility to provide support for SmartGWT so ultimately it falls on Isomorphic's shoulders to provide support for their customers.

[Eric Clayberg (Google)]

I'm trying to use the latest version of WindowBuilder (2011.10.18) with the latest version of SmartGWT (3.0).
Opening a view class in the designer, though, I'm presented with the error message:
"WindowBuilder supports only SmartGWT versions 2.4, 2.5. But 3.0 found."

Is there a way to work around this? Do you know if there is a patch for WindowBuilder underway?

That will depend on the SmartGWT developers (or any community members that want to use it). We (Google) have no plans to provide support for SmartGWT 3.0 on our end. On-going support for SmartGWT is a big project, and now that GWT Designer is open source along with the rest of the Google Plugin for Eclipse (GPE), this is a project more appropriate for the SmartGWT team to undertake (and I encourage them to do so). In fact, our position going forward is that 3rd party component providers should provide GWTD support on their end as they are in the best position to do so.

I should also point out that WindowBuilder/GWT Designer has had very nice support for data binding for several years. We currently support data binding for SWT, Swing and GXT. Adding support for the SmartGWT data binding framework is probably doable as well.

[Isomorphic]

Eric, what you consider data binding is very different from how SmartGWT does data binding. We perceive adding SmartGWT data binding as tantamount to a rewrite or at least major surgery to GWTD, with an end result of questionable value: we focus on sophisticated enterprise applications and most such applications have extremely data-driven UIs, only small parts of which could realistically be created in a visual tool.

For this reason we perceive the value as low for the majority of our customers, who have other priorities they are rather clear about. But the community is certainly welcome to pick up the tool if there is a niche for it, and we'll assist any serious efforts.

Scott, Visual Builder is not an IDE and has a very specific purpose, explained in the FAQ, for which nothing based on Eclipse will ever be suitable, at least not for the forseeable future. Again, for developers, our recommendation is to use Eclipse or other IDEs and simply not use GWTD. As it stands, GWTD is simply not as productive as direct use of the data binding system within Eclipse.

Also, please stay away from the spectacularly absurd implication that we are somehow failing to support customers by declining to pick up a third party codebase that takes an approach we would not have taken. Evidence of our vigorous support of our products is visible all over this forum as well as in the huge range of new functionality introduced in every release.

[aranda.jc]

A mi me servía de sobremanera, independientemente de la discusión que traen. Es una lástima que por ahora no esté disponible.

Saludos

[kolban]

Hi guys. I am a relatively new GWT developer but long time UI developer. As I evaluate a variety of Web based UI frameworks, what drew me to GWT was the ability to visually design my applications using an IDE. My alternative was Dojo but its lack of IDE was a show stopper. To my mind, attempting to build UIs at the "code" level is a major step backwards. The WindowBuilder environment feels perfect for what I need and from what I saw, the pre 3.0 SmartGWT support was fine.

As an example consumer, I'd like to vote for WindowBuilder support for SmartGWT.

Isomorphic,
Can you help me understand more about the recommendation not to use a visual IDE to build my apps? What would you suggest I use to rapidly build UIs? Are you really suggesting a Java source code editor to edit, run, look-see what I want to change and then repeat? As I get into more detailed activies, I find that WindowBuilder pretty much shows me in real-time what my end UI visuals will look like. If I want to nudge pixels, or tweak CSS and see the results, I'd really like to avoid edit/compile/run cycles.

Neil (IBM)

[Isomorphic]

Take a look at the QuickStart Guide for the approach we recommend, especially Data Binding and the beginning of the Server Framework chapter, explaining the extremely high productivity approach of generating UI from your data model and tweaking from there. See also the FAQ on GWT Designer.

[amcculley]

I know this sounds odd, but once I got use to 2.5, I actually found using the WindowBuilder to be slower and less productive than doing my UIs in code. To be honest, I wasn't even aware of a problem with 3.0 and WindowBuilder... that is how long it has been since I have even attempted to use WindowBuilder.

As a paying customer, count me in as someone who just thinks Isomorphic spending time on it is a "nice to have".

If you aren't a strong coder and/or don't want to put the time in to become familiar with the robust API (which I have personally found to be much faster at getting my job done than any visual editor I could perceive using), then you have several very viable options:

1) Mock your UIs with Balsalmiq, Axure, OneNote, etc and leave the implementation up to software devs familiar with SmartGwt's API
2) Learn SmartGwt's API
3) Use GWT instead of SmartGwt
4) Use SmartGwt 2.5 instead of SmartGwt 3.0

I'm about 8 months into my SmartGwt experience - the first 5 months or so was spent dabbling in my spare time. Just ditch the WindowBuilder, get in there, and get your hands dirty with the API - you'll soon learn to really appreciate just how awesome it is... especially once you start creating abstract classes, custom widgets, wrapping your head around the power of SGWT's data binding, etc.

If there were 1 area I feel a visual/real-time builder would be useful, it would be with SmartGwt's DynamicForms... which I personally feel could use a bit of an overhaul with the API regarding layout, options, etc... but if that were to happen, I probably wouldn't feel the need for a visual editor.

[kolban]

Hi guys,
I'll certainly do some more study but just a quick bit of background. My job is build Proof of Concepts (PoCs) on back-end applications (for the sake of discussion, imagine I sell "database software"). My focus is not on selling or building User Interfaces but instead demonstrating the feeds and speeds of my database product vs other folks database products. On occasion, some of the customers I am visiting wish to see "user interfaces" that look "sexy" as front-ends to my database for specific applications. Remember, my goal is to demonstrate database and not to be in the UI building business. To progress my work, I am still forced to build some UIs in short-order. To that end, I am looking for UI development environments that are as quick and easy to use and learn as possible.

If my job were building UIs, I can easily see an investment of my time to learn UI at the API level however, working with UI is maybe 5% of my time and when I do work on UI, it is a few hours at a time to build a one-off demo that will be discarded after use.

For my purposes, it is not important which UI technology I use ... in the past it has been thick SWT and sometimes Flash ... now that I have found GWT and WindowBuilder, that seems like a great weapon of choice. Looking at GWT took me to SmartGWT and "great" ...

So for the suggestions (which are good and valid and thank you) ...
1) It is my alone responsibility to build custom demos (my job) and they have to be built by me alone so I can't farm them out to others more skilled in UI
2) I need speed of creation vs ability to master/use APIs ... and since it is 5% of my job, I can't keep current (or memorize) SmartGWT APIs
3) Using GWT instead of SmartGWT is working right now ... but (as this thread shows) I am exploring the story of using WindowBuilder with SmartGWT
4) I guess I can certainly use SmartGWT 2.5

This is meant to offer some background on my individual story that may help give some context to where I am coming from.

When I show demos to potential customers, my focus is on "database" and UI is "this ... I just knocked this up to illustrate what might be possible". I am not selling nor pushing any UI technology and I will use the one that is easiest to use to build UI. As mentioned, before finding WindowBuilder, I had been using FlexBuilder and was hoping that the same "rational" for Adobe saying "build Flex apps with FlexBuilder" would also apply to "build SmartGWT apps with <insert IDE here>".

Neil